Prof. Engel : Yes, one could put it like that. The Christian meditation teacher that I often visit, Johannes Kopp, calls his whole program “Living from the Middle”. I find “to find one’s own middle” is a nice expression and it applies to the case in point. Others selected a different vocabulary. A person that is centred and no longer finds itself involved in its egotistic tendencies, will do a lot of things differently. D. W. : If one were to pursue this line a little further, would one find that this was an ideal approach to prevent wars for instance? Prof. Engel : You know that TM also tried this. They said, give me a specific number of meditators that we can send to the gulf region and we will get the whole shemozzle under control. But this would have to be put to the test. Maybe one should have tried this to see whether this will work or not work. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi thinks here that if 1% of the population meditates - and he applies this also in regards to the crime rate etc. - one would be able to reduce criminality considerably. One would have to check this. One will then see whether this is idle talk or whether there is something to it. How would this look if 10% would meditate? These things will eventually be tested. As we are dealing with TM, one would have to find out the reason why TM has generally lost its pertinence again. Have all the articles about Yogis flying actually helped or rather harmed TM? D. W. : I would say that it rather harmed it. According to my extensive circle of friends, a lot of what has been shown on TV in regards to commercials was very absurd. This is where TM had its greatest chance, if it had only promoted meditation, to assert itself. But one went too far here - and this is now hardly repairable according to my views. Prof. Engel : Exactly - above everything else, because none of the Yogis could demonstrate that they could fly. If one of them had demonstrated, “look here, I can sit for half an hour in the air”, it would have been apparent. But this hopping about seen on TV could not be differentiated. One could now generally say that: Forms of meditation that are geared to produce any type of effect do rather harm themselves. This is where another criterium already comes into effect: A serious approach would never be after such sensationalism. Healing abilities are something different - this simply happened to many wise people and it was not pushed into the foreground. It was not turned into a circus. D. W. : And there is something else. There are people that feel harassed by spirit entities. It is always difficult to find a contact person for these people, because many of them do not see the WORLD of SPIRIT as a reality and try with their available means to rectify such problematics - but they often fail. Could one get a grip on this by actually taking these so-called “spirit entities” serious, thereby providing genuine help to those that are really thus affected, help through holistically trained psychiatrists? Prof. Engel : I would send somebody with these symptoms in the direction that’s appropriate for them. For instance, Christianity or the religious environment that’s appropriate for them. Or if they suffer to such a degree where it becomes pathological, to the Spiritual Emergency Network that also exists here in Germany. Therapists from all over Germany got together and this is where I would send the afflicted. You can assume that these people do not just have a pharmacological approach to illnesses and regard anything beyond as utter nonsense, they are open-minded and they listen
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